Audio file from Rabbi Dovid E. Eidensohn on the strangest teaching in the Talmud and Medrash, G-d's confrontation with the Moon at Creation.
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Audio File on Diminishing the Moon
The great failure of marriage even in the highest echelons of the Torah community is because people don't know the halacha, the Torah laws, of marriage, divorce, Family and raising children. Rabbi Dovid E. Eidensohn publishes books, publications, and material on blog and Google with approbations from the greatest rabbis such as the Gaonim Reb Moshe Feinstein, Rav Yosef Shalom Elyashev and other major gedolim.
Thursday, May 7, 2015
Tuesday, May 5, 2015
Telephone conference Marriage Recognized and Not Recognized by the Torah
Telephone Shiur #6
Wed night 9:30 PM 5/6/15 Call 605-562-3130 then code 411161#
Marriage Recognized
and Not Recognized by the Torah
Rabbi Dovid E.
Eidensohn/845-578-1917
1.
What kind of marriage is
recognized by the Torah?
2.
When a Jew gives a ring or
valuable object to a Jewish woman and says “you are mekudeshes to me” or a
similar phrase, the woman is married to the man. EH 27:1. Marriage can also be
created by giving a document of marriage to the woman and she accepts it, and
it says that she is mekudeshes to the man who gave her the document EH 31:1.
Also, if the husband has marital relations with a Jewish woman with intent to
marry they are married EH33:1. Two Orthodox witnesses must witness any act of
Kiddushin EH 27:2; 31:1; 33:1.
3.
If witnesses know that a
Jew and a Jewess are together and having marital relations, and we know that
they were once married but now are divorced, we assume that their being
together in front of witnesses or with the knowledge of kosher witnesses is an
act of marriage and they are married EH 149:5.
4.
But if the two were not
originally married and then divorced, we assume that the two intended not
marriage but Zenuse and there is no marriage. Shulchan Aruch Even Hoezer 149:5.
5.
If a husband and wife are
together in a community where marriage is often not established by Torah ritual
but by governmental or social style, and the people probably consider
themselves married, either because they are ignorant of the Torah or deny the
Torah or ignore the Torah, we have a problem if kosher witnesses knew of them.
6.
The Gadol of America, Rav
Yosef Eliyohu Henkin zt”l, wrote in Lev Ivro that when two Jews marry in a
secular ceremony but they consider it marriage, or the type of secular marriage
has a name, civil marriage, that indicates marriage and not Zenuse, we assume
that they are married. (Lev Ivro page 12). Reb Moshe Feinstein zt”l disagrees
EH IV:81. This is also a machlokess between the Ragetshover who is machmir and
HaGaon Reb Yonoson Shteif who says the custom is to be lenient, see Teshuvose Rav Shteif #118.
7.
If the husband and wife
make a two ring ceremony, it would seem that both share in the act of
Kiddushin, which could result in no Torah marriage at all. On the other hand,
maybe the wife knows that her mother married with one ring, and she wants to
give a ring only to be modern, but without violating the basic idea of Torah
kiddushin. Reb Moshe Feinstein zt”l wrote in Even Hoezer IV:13:4 that in such a
case the couple must be told by the rabbi that the marriage is when the husband
gives the ring, and the wife may give the ring only after she is married by the
husband’s giving of the ring, as a celebration of the previous act of marriage.
But if this was not done, Reb Moshe does not know what to say, because who
knows what the couple was thinking?
8.
Also in the time of Rav
Henkin even secular people recognized the role of the male as being the head of
the house and the woman he married came into his possession. Therefore, any
kind of “marriage” would satisfy the Torah requirements. But today with gender
wars and the women insisting on being equal to men “marriage” means not what
the Torah calls Kiddushin, when the wife is possessed by the husband, but
rather a partnership. If so, the “partnership” marriage does not create Torah
marriage.
9.
Because of this, couples
without kosher Kiddushin living together in New York or other areas where
Orthodox Jews live and the couple has a de facto marriage without Kiddushin, we
have a problem if by Torah law they are married. If they are married and broke
up without a GET, we have a problem if the woman can remarry without a GET. And
if she does remarry without a GET, we have a problem if the children are
mamzerim.
1 .
A woman in order to gain
entrance to a country pretends to marry a man who is a citizen of that country,
and she stays in his house, so that they
both appear as man and wife. The man makes a condition he will do the woman a
favor so she can enter the country, but she must stay in his house for three
months and then she must leave and they will separate. Reb Moshe says she is
not married by Torah standards. Igeres Moshe EV VI:112
1.
A woman is married to a man
in a Reform ceremony. The man and his ancestors were Reform. Reb Moshe
Feinstein zt”l in Igeres Moshe IV:75 says that there is no marriage. In that
case the couple was together a short time and were not in a neighborhood with
frumeh Yidden. Yet Reb Moshe says that if possible a GET should be given. But
if this is not possible he permits the woman to remarry without a GET.
1.
A woman wanted to marry a
Kohen but she is a divorcee. So she went to a Reform rabbi and married the
Kohen. Reb Moshe says that she is not married to the Kohen because the Reform
marriage is not a marriage. And if there are Orthodox people who know that they
live together there may be kiddushin from biah, but that only applies to
Orthodox people who don’t want to live with Zenuse. But people who go to Reform
don’t have compunctions with what we
call Zenuse. So there is no marriage, because those who are hefker regarding
Torah and mitsvose have no reluctance to make a Biah of Zenuse. Igeres Moshe
IV:76.
1 .
In Igeres Moshe IV:77 Reb
Moshe makes it clear that Reform people don’t make a ceremony of marriage
acceptable to the Torah and they are deniers so that even Rav Henkin who
considers civil marriage a Torah marriage would agree that this does not apply
to Reform deniers of the Torah.
1 In Igeres Moshe IV:78 Reb
Moshe says that a goy who is converted by a Conservative rabbi who is mechalel
Shabbos who marries a Jewish woman with such a rabbi, she is not married. Rabbis
known to be kofrim make invalid marriages and are invalid witnesses so she is
not married.
1.
A woman who met a man and
they married in civil court where there were no Orthodox witnesses and stayed
together only a few days. She is not married as no Orthodox witnesses knew they
were together. Igeres Moshe IV:80
1.
A Russian woman married
there at a time when the government treated marriage as an easily broken thing
and the government itself sometimes breaks up a marriage to serve the
government. If the woman wants to be frum we can clarify what happened and find
a reason to permit her to remarry. But if she won’t be frum we don’t have to help her get married and live in sin.
Igeres Moshe IV:81.
1.
See Reb Yonosan Shteif zt”l
in his teshuvose207 is a Pilegesh permitted or forbidden. A Yevomo LaShuk who is
a pilegesh is this permitted? See
his teshuva at length forbidding
a Yevoma LaShuk to be a pilegesh.
1.
A woman finds out that her
husband is a mumar. Is this kiddushei toose? See Reb Yonosan Shteif 103. See
degrees of Mumar in teshuvose Yam Shel Shlomo #41 that perhaps applies in this
case also. See also Ayin Yitschok I:24 about mekach yoose in marriage.
1.
If somebody is married and
takes another woman without kiddushin, and she stopped going to the Mikvah, and
this goes on for many years, when she leaves the man, does she need a GET?
Tsemach Tsedek from Lubavitch EH I:138 has lengthy discussion of this. He does
not say a definite thing but concludes that there are proofs to be lenient.
This is about a Pilegesh if she needs a GET.
. Regarding Pilegesh see
Shulchan Aruch Even Hoezer 13:7: “A Pilegesh who lives only with one man who
wants to marry somebody else must wait ninety days.” From this it seems that
she does not need a GET because it only demands a delay of ninety days. The Gro
there #19 says that she wants to have children. That is, they are married in
practice if not with Kiddushin. And it would seem that there is no need of a
GET as this is not mentioned. See Even Hoezer 26:1 a machlokess about Pilegesh
forbidden or permitted.
.
A husband is discovered to
have a terrible fault such as being unable to have intimacy, we try to get a
GET from him. If that is impossible, there is a great discussion in the Poskim.
See Igeres Moshe EH1:80 at the end there his lenient opinion, and the opinion
of the Gaon of Kovna in Ayin Yitschok EH 24 and Bare Yitschok 4 that this might
be forbidden dirabonon.
2 Let us conclude that there
is a great difference of opinion regarding many Jewish marriages, if they are
valid or if people need a GET in order to remarry. We have previously discussed
the issues of forcing husbands to give a GET that could make mamzerim.
2 It is a time to learn Even
Hoezer, and each day, it is more important to learn Even Hoezer.
Wednesday, April 29, 2015
Audio of telephone conference on a forced GET
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Audio of telephone conference on a forced GET
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Audio of telephone conference on a forced GET
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Tuesday, April 28, 2015
Telephone Conference Shiur #5 - Beth Din Coerces a GET
Telephone Conference Shiur #5 - Beth Din Coerces a GET
1.
Even Hoezer 77 paragraphs 2
and 3 make it clear that in general it is forbidden to coerce a husband to
divorce his wife despite her demands and protests. And yet there are some times
when a husband can be forced to divorce his wife, such as when it is forbidden
to live with a relative see EH 154.
2.
Even Hoezer 1:3 should we
force somebody over twenty years old to marry? Shulchan Aruch says yes and Ramo
says the custom is not to force people in choosing a mate in marriage even if
they are not doing the mitzvah properly. See the Gro there #9,#10 seems to
approve of forcing people to fulfill the mitzvah not like the Ramo but like the
Shulchan Aruch. Here forcing a mitzvah is permitted by some authorities, but
forcing a GET is in general not
permitted.
3.
See Ramo in Shulchan Aruch
EH I:10 a man marries two wives can we force him to divorce one. Two opinions
in Ramo. Here two wives is a sinful marriage because of Cherem Rabbeinu Gershon
not to marry two wives. And in a sinful marriage a divorce can be forced.
4.
When the Shulchan Aruch rarely
approves of forcing a husband to give a GET, how does this work? Today there
are no mumchim. See gemora Gittin 88b. See also Choshen Mishpot beginning of
Simon 1 in Nesivose, Tumim, and Ketsose in Simon 3.
5.
Chazon Ish Gittin 99:2 when
Beth Din mistakenly tells the husband he must give a GET and that is not the
law, the GET is invalid for two reasons min haTorah. Thus a Beth Din has no
power to force a GET when the Shulchan Aruch says the husband in that case
cannot be forced. And if the Beth Din paskens without forcing the husband and
the husband gives the GET the GET is invalid and the children are mamzerim
diorayso.
6.
What was the power of the Geonim to permit forcing
a husband in defiance of the gemoras that clearly indicate that a husband in
most cases cannot be forced to divorce? Tosfose Rid Gittin 89a based on gemora
Bovo Basra מצוה לשמוע לדברי חכמים.
What does this mean?
7.
See also Tosfose Kesubose
63b AVOL discussion at length about coercing a GET.
8.
Did the Geonim permit
always to force a GET when the wife demands it, or was this a temporary ruling
that is not applicable today? A machlokess HaRishonim in this see Ramban and
Baal HaMoor on the Rif Kesubose 63b.
9.
What is the authority of a
Rov or a Beth Din to teach people the halacha and to insist that they obey? See
Rashbo in Teshuva I:253.
Monday, April 27, 2015
Book Secret of the Cherubin first 3 chapters
Book on Cherubin
Rabbi Dovid E. Eidensohn
Secret of the Cherubin -
Chapter One
In the Holy Temple
and the Tabernacle of Sinai there were various rooms and courtyards, some
holier than others. The highest sanctity was in the inner sanctum, the Holy of Holies.
In the Holy of Holies was the Holy Ark. Inside the Holy Ark were the Tablets
Moses brought down from Mount Sinai and a Torah scroll. On top of the Holy Ark
were decorative images of winged angels in the guise of a boy and girl, called
the Cherubin.
The Ark contained a
Torah scroll and the Tablets of Moses. Why did the Cherubin stand atop the Ark
and its holy treasures?
The holy work Tano
Divei Eliyohu or The Yeshiva of Eliyohu HaNovi begins with the idea that the
Cherubin preceded all of the Creation of Genesis. It continues to say that
Derech Erets, meaning proper character traits, precedes the Tree of Life and
the Torah. This is essentially the famous saying, “Derech Erets precedes the
Torah.” Derech Erets is how we relate to others and to ourselves, and how our
personality and human processes operate. Thus, the Cherubin represented the
purity of humanity ready to learn and obey the Torah. A Jew devoted to Torah
but whose personality is flawed cannot achieve a proper level of Torah.
But there is another
aspect of the Cherubin mentioned there. The book Tano Divei Eliyohu begins with
“And He drove the man out” of the Garden of Eden after the sin of Adam and Eve.
“And He established the Cherubin in front of the Garden of Eden” to prevent
people from entering the Garden. With the Cherubin was “a sharply bladed sword
that twisted.” Thus, the Cherubin are avenging angels.
The Cherubin are
avenging angels who appear in the guise of children, a boy and a girl. This is
amazing. Do children become avenging angels? But a purity of heart that merits
a purity of Torah cannot tolerate evil. It struggles to maintain the purity of
the Holy of Holies and whatever Torah level is has achieved. This battle is a
constant and mighty battle, requiring great efforts and wisdom. Those who seek
the Garden of Eden and higher holiness battle with an angelic evil force, the
Satan, and inner biological and ego issues that require much planning and
patience. The great rabbis warn us that if we seek to go too high we can fall.
The weapon we use is a “blade of a twisting sword.” We must know when to go
higher and when to accept our present level. To err is to be in danger. And we
must constantly pray for divine assistance, because how can a mortal filled
with evil forces succeed?
The highest level
of Derech Erets is in proper and loving marital intimacy. Thus the Cherubin,
representing Derech Erets, are boy and girl. This symbolizes marital relations,
the highest level of Derech Erets, as a pure and innocent love.
The Torah and the
Cherubin represent Torah and Derech Erets, or how to observe the Torah in human
relations. But the Cherubin are more than simply the idea of relating to other
people. The Cherubin represent the incredible concept of G‑d, alone in His
Self, who sought to relate to others. We cannot approach the depth of this
properly without the wisdom of G‑d which we lack. But we must appreciate it.
We must emulate G‑d.
We must seek to relate to others. We must connect to others, and respect them,
even if by so doing we may denigrate our own honor and glory. The world is filled
with denial of the Truth and Torah. Yet it is G‑d's wish to make such a world
in order that people can accept challenge and merit reward. Relating to others
is more important than we can imagine. We, each of us, are more important than
we can imagine. So we must remind ourselves of our importance, and yet, we must
work on modesty. The sword is sharp but it turns and twists, up and down.
Truly, life is a “ladder standing on the ground, and its top is in the
heavens.” But if we don’t do things properly we can fall off of the ladder. And
when we fall, the higher we were, the greater is the damage from the fall.
Thus, the Cherubin,
boy and girl together, represent several important teachings. Through them we
understand somewhat why HaShem created people. First of all, the Cherubin were
innocent and pure, and therefore Cherubin in Aramaic, means “children.” Thus, we must
strive for purity. Purity means many things, but it surely means we must relate
to others without envy and hate. It is possible that relating to others without
envy or hate is the hardest command in the Torah. The Second Temple was
destroyed because of vain hatred.
Another lesson in
the idea of Cherubin being “children”
male and female is that Adam was created alone until he discovered, “it is not
good for a man to be alone.” Then HaShem created Eve. Adam and Eve then had
children and the world is their progeny. But marriage is a “twisting sword.” On
the one hand marriage may be the highest level of humanity. It requires a
supreme Derech Erets for two different people to marry. And the biological
passions associated with childbirth threaten us constantly with evil thoughts
that easily lead to sin. We are always struggling with these opposite poles of
humanity. But the Cherubin, boy and girl, represent the idea that humans can
struggle towards the ideal and the goal of purity in a world of the opposite.
For this was a person created. And when a person tries to be pure, heavenly
forces embrace and encourage him. If he fails and sin, evil forces embrace and
destroy him.
The Holy of Holies
teaches us that despite the evil in the world and in all of us, we must recall
the possibility of the highest purity as indicated with the Cherubin astride
the Ark.
Reb Yisroel
Salanter founded the Musar Movement to emphasize Derech Erets and proper social
and personal behavior. He said that it is easier to master the Talmud than to
purify one bad character trait. Great is our burden. But the Torah and the heavenly
realm are there to empower us to succeed.
King Saul, the
tallest of the Jews in his time, was a mighty warrior and the king of Israel,
the first king. And yet, we are told, “Saul was as a one year old child” in his purity. How
could this be? Because the Cherubin teach us that life is to have temptations
of ego and illicit desire and to fight them. Saul merited being as pure as a
child without the hate and illicit desires that deprive people of holiness.
The great
challenges of life are not in the Torah and its commands, because one twisted
with hate will twist the Torah. One who has a pure heart and a pure mind and
only such a person can learn Torah properly. Thus, Torah without Cherubin is a
mortal danger. But when we seek Torah and Derech Erets, the Torah that we learn
is pure.
The Zohar accepts
that marriage and having children are done using the Evil Inclination within
us. But it must be a servant and not the manager. As a servant, it creates
lovely children with lofty souls. As a manager it destroys.
Thus, the Cherubin,
boy and girl, represent human relations at its purest level. This includes
marital relations that elevate a person as perhaps nothing else.
All of us outside
of the Garden of Eden struggle to find goodness. But our world is saturated
with biological and spiritual forces that threaten Torah values. When we
struggle with darkness a light comes from the highest heavens to help us. The
supreme achievement is to achieve purity similar to that of young children.
This is the teaching of the Cherubin.
Chapter Two
Cherubins Stand on the Ark in the Temple
Why did the Cherubin stand on the Ark containing
the Holy Torah and the Sacred Tablets? But Cherubins were baby-faced angels of
kindness but could also be avenging angels. Anyone who entered the Holy of
Holies and did not belong there would deal with the Cherubins. To know how to
behave with kindness or attack requires a knowledge of Torah. Thus, the
Cherubin stood upon the Torah to be guided.
It is very easy, and happens frequently, that
somebody does something very wrong because he thinks he is doing a good deed. This is especially
prevalent in family as we will discuss.
Light
and Darkness
“And it was evening and it was morning, one
day.” G‑d created the world with both light and darkness. The physical world
has light and darkness, day and night. And the spiritual world has light and
darkness, goodness and evil.
The physical world
after sunset and before sunrise has periods of confusion. It is in between day
and night but seems to be neither. This “between the sun’s rising or setting”
has no clear status as day or night. The spiritual world also has light and
obvious goodness, and it has darkness and obvious evil. It also has things that
are confusing. We are not sure if it is good or bad, or both, or what.
Thus, the Cherubin,
angels, stand on the Holy Ark in the Holy of Holies. Sometimes the Cherubin are
as baby-faced loving children. And sometimes they are avenging angels. Rooted
in Torah, the Cherubin know what to do, when do be kind and when destructive.
How do we apply
this to our lives?
The Cherubin, boy
and girl, represented purity in marriage, perhaps the greatest mortal level.
Marriage is a very special and holy level, but it also requires elements that
can go in the other direction. It is very difficult to know what to do, even to
know what is right and what is wrong. Let us take some examples.
Much of marriage
goes in opposite directions. For instance, Rambam tells us that the husband must honor his wife more
than himself, and that the wife must treat her husband as if he was a great
officer. That is very nice. But what about when the husband feels that he is
the one who makes Kiddush and learns Torah and explains halacha, not the wife.
And what if the wife feels that she is the one who is entrusted with holding a
baby until birth and raising it, while the husband is outside of the home,
doing things that may be less important in the long run than creating good
people.
What if the husband
points out to his wife that he is the one who learns and teaches Torah. And the
wife rejoins that the Zohar teaches that the first word in the Torah is בראשית whose letters are בית ראש meaning “the house
is primary.” Who is right? Who is wrong?
In my work Secret
of the Scale we talk about this at length, and we want to discuss these matters
again and add some more material. But our point here is simply that marriage is
a time of confusion. And the Cherubin remind us that we must be rooted in
Torah, “standing on the Ark” in order to proceed.
The Gaon Reb Shlomo
Zalman Aurebach lost his wife in his old age. He came to the funeral and
refused to ask his wife publicly for forgiveness. People came to him and
questioned this. It is the Jewish custom to be forgiveness at that time. Reb
Shlomo Zalman answered, “I never did anything to displease her. So why should I
ask her forgiveness.” Here is a great Gaon and a great Tsadik. But to be
married fifty years and never aggravate your wife? That is something special.
It might also be very unusual.
The great conflict
in marriage is not the conflict of Torah and the house. It is the conflict of
two people who are very different in many ways. How can the live together for
fifty years with never a wrong word? That is the power of Torah. And even those
who do have Torah rarely achieve it. As Reb Yisroel Salanter said, “It is
easier to master the Talmud than to master one bad character trait.”
One thing I learn
from the Cherubin is that to stand astride the Ark and do the right thing you
have to be an angel. What does that do for me? I don’t know if it does anything
for me. But it does tell me to get to work. And “one who comes to purify
himself merits heavenly help.” Yes, there is heavenly help. And yes, there are
angels. And we need help constantly.
But I have a more
practical path. We will discuss this in chapter Three. It is called, “Shalom
Bayis Beth Din,” an idea approved by Gedolei HaDor that could really make a
dent in the broken marriages we see today.
Chapter Three - Shalom Bayis Beth Din
The Gaon Rav Mayer
Mintz zt”l once told me the following. A Jew did such a terrible sin that
nobody ever heard of a Jew doing such a thing. They went to a rabbi who told
them, “I don’t know why the Jew did such a thing, but this I know. He did it to
serve HaShem.” That is, we are limited in our evil-doing when we know we are
doing wrong. Perhaps we were overwhelmed by anger or desire and do something we
know is wrong. But if we know it is wrong, we have to limit the scope of the
evil. If, however, we are convinced that the evil deed is not evil but a good
deed, a mitzvah, why should we refrain from doing it completely?
We have in family
the best and the worst. The best is when people marry and try their best to
succeed. But as time goes on, and the problems multiply, there may be a
different atmosphere in the home. Eventually, somebody says something and the
other spouse is very offended. Words are exchanged. A coldness pervades the
home. Relatives sense it and are told the complaints. From then, it is
downhill. As the bitterness becomes public knowledge, certain types intervene
and encourage the worst. And the worst does happen. Finally, somebody may want
a divorce. And the other spouse refuses. This leads to war. Hate and
destruction rain down on the house and the children and cause terrible pain to
the couple. It may never end and it may constantly get worse and worse. Why?
Because the warring people are sure that they are the righteous one, and the
other one is the evil one. So why not destroy an evil person?
Enter Shalom Bayis
Beth Din.
Shalom Bayis Beth
Din is not a Beth Din to deal with divorce and giving a GET. Shalom Bayis Beth
Din never deals with a GET as it is only there to assure Shalom Bayis. How does
it work?
The task of Shalom
Bayis Beth Din is one, to educate about how to behave in a marriage. This
education can begin before the wedding, even long before it. I once told a
prominent therapist that education for marriage should begin at the age of
three, he countered that the latest scientific evidence is that the education
should begin much earlier than that, before gestation! At any rate, the earlier
the better.
Shalom Bayis Beth
Din is there to deal with any arguments or differences of opinion in the
marriage, to extinguish the sparks of war before they really ignite. How is
this done?
First of all,
Shalom Bayis Beth very strongly urges a couple never to discuss their complaints
with relatives and friends. Those personally inclined towards relatives and
friends and can make a bad marriage worse. We even have idealistic people who
seek opportunities to “enlighten” married people about the “benefit” of a war
against the other spouse.
Secondly, when told
of a complaint, Shalom Bayis Beth Din listens carefully, but deals with the
complaint to limit it so that it doesn’t become the great excuse to make war
and hideous horrors in the house.
Third of all, when
it seems that somebody wants a divorce, we follow the advice of the great Gaon
and expert in personal matters, Rebbe Yaacov Kaminetsky, who told a Rov: “Ask
her if her husband would be good enough for a zivuge shaynee.”
Until now Shalom
Bayis Beth Din is only voluntary. But if the family has no great worry about
disobeying the Shalom Bayis Beth Din, there are times when the pain and passion
overcome all reason. Therefore, the couple when it approaches Shalom Bayis Beth
Din, is given an option of pledging in writing, in a document valid in American
law, that the couple will obey the ruling of the Shalom Bayis Beth Din not to
do this or to do that. And if they Beth Din is not obeyed, the Beth Din has a
right to fine the spouse who defies it.
In such a
situation, if the spouse continues, say, to beat his wife, and the fines
multiply, the person may realize that he cannot control himself (which is
common) and he realizes that he will lose a lot of money, because the Beth Din
has a legal document that requires the fine to be paid. At that point, he may
decide to agree on a GET, to save himself the fines. This is not a GET Meuoso,
a forced GET. I have discussed this with great authorities. The fine is not to
give as GET. The opposite is true. The fine is to make Shalom Bayis and sustain
the marriage. But the only escape for one who cannot control himself is a GET.
This hopefully will limit the amount of women who are refused a GET.
A prominent Gaon of
the past generation told me that he never saw a husband who beat his wife stop
beating his wife. He said it is a sickness. If so, the fine could convince the
husband to divorce. But this is not the purpose of the Beth Din nor does it
want to deal with divorces. Better that another Beth Din deal with divorce. But
if there is nobody else to take care of it, someone worthy will decide whether
the Shalom Bayis Beth Din should get involved with a GET. But again, the Shalom
Bayis Beth Din is only there to make Shalom Bayis and does not talk about GET
in any way to encourage it. Of course, it could mention that if the fights keep
getting worse every day that who knows, it may end up a divorce. But the Beth
Din does not in any way shape or form encourage a GET. If the husband or wife
want a GET, again, it is better that another Beth Din deal with it. And if only
the Beth Din should be able to succeed with the GET, a worthy person must
decide what to do.
An important part
of Shalom Bayis Din’s activities is teaching about intimacy. There are hideous
problems from marriages that are destroyed by frumkeit regarding intimacy. There
are unbelievable sins when there is not a happy functioning intimacy in the
house. We hope to discuss this in more detail later on.
A man had been
fighting terribly with his wife and were separated many years without a GET. I
read him a few lines in the Shulchan Aruch. He jumped up and said, “I need a
wife.” If people could read the Shulchan Aruch, if they realized the true
halacha of how to behave in marriage, so many marriages would succeed. But
today, there is great ignorance across the board about the laws of marriage and
divorce.
The Cherubin stand
asride the Torah, because everything depends on the halacha. Every marriage
should also stand astride the Shulchan Aruch, because only when people know the
halacha and obey it can we really hope for a successful marriage.
Shalom Bayis Beth
Din is a project of the Jewish Outreach Congregation, which is heavily involved
in education about marriage and divorce. We will deal with this in the coming
chapter, Chapter Four Teaching the Laws of Marriage, Family and Divorce.
Chapter Four – Laws
of Marriage, Family and Divorce
We have mentioned
above that the Cherubin had faces of children, to symbolize purity. They were
boy and girl to indicate the holiness of marriage and family. And they stood
astride the Holy Ark with the Torah of Moshe inside along with the Tablets from
HaShem and Sinai, to show that we must root ourselves always in halacha as
taught in the Torah. When people know the laws of marriage, family and divorce,
there is hope. When people don’t know the laws of marriage, family and divorce,
there are problems.
Today there are
terrible problems. Jewish Outreach Congregation has been working hard the past
years to rectify the terrible ignorance about these sacred laws. I spoke at
length to the posek hador HaGaon Rav Yosef Shalom Elyashev of Jerusalem zt”l
about these problems, and he encouraged me to struggle against the ignorance
and worse that is going on today. (not completed)
Sunday, April 26, 2015
Secret of the Cherubin - Chapter Two
Secret
of the Cherubin
Chapter
Two
Cherubins Stand on the Ark in the Temple
Why did the Cherubin stand on
the Ark containing the Holy Torah and the Sacred Tablets? But to be an angel,
to be a pure Cherubin, one must be strongly supported by a true understanding
of Torah. It is very easy, and happens frequently, that somebody does something
very wrong because he thinks he is doing
a good deed. This is especially prevalent in family.
Light
and Darkness
“And it was evening and it was morning, one
day.” G‑d created the world with both light and darkness. The physical world
has light and darkness, day and night. And the spiritual world has light and
darkness, goodness and evil.
The physical world after
sunset and before sunrise has periods of confusion. It is in between day and
night but seems to be neither. This “between the sun’s rising or setting” has no
clear status as day or night. The spiritual world also has light and obvious
goodness, and it has darkness and obvious evil. It also has things that are
confusing. We are not sure if it is good or bad, or both, or what.
Thus, the Cherubin,
angels, stand on the Holy Ark in the Holy of Holies. Sometimes the Cherubin are
as baby-faced loving children. And sometimes they are avenging angels. Rooted
in Torah, the Cherubin know what to do, when to be kind and when destructive.
How do we apply
this to our lives?
The Cherubin, boy
and girl, represented purity in marriage, perhaps the greatest mortal level.
Marriage is a very special and holy level, but it also requires elements that
can go in the other directions. It is very difficult to know what to do, even to
know what is right and what is wrong. Let us take some examples.
Much of marriage
goes in opposite directions. For instance, Rambam tells us that the husband must honor his wife more
than himself, and that the wife must treat her husband as if he was a great
officer. That is very nice. But what about when the husband feels that he is
the one who makes Kiddush and learns Torah and explains halacha, not the wife.
And what if the wife feels that she is the one who is entrusted with holding a
baby until birth and raising it, while the husband is outside of the home,
doing things that may be less important in the long run than creating good
people.
What if the husband
points out to his wife that he is the one who learns and teaches Torah. And the
wife rejoins that the Zohar teaches that the first word in the Torah is בראשית whose letters are בית ראש meaning “the house
is primary.” Who is right? Who is wrong?
In my work Secret
of the Scale we talk about this at length, and we want to discuss these matters
again and add some more material. But our point here is simply that marriage is
a time of confusion. And the Cherubin remind us that we must be rooted in
Torah, “standing on the Ark” in order to proceed.
The Gaon Reb Shlomo
Zalman Aurebach lost his wife in his old age. He came to the funeral and refused
to ask his wife publicly for forgiveness. People came to him and questioned this.
It is the Jewish custom to beg forgiveness at that time. Reb Shlomo Zalman answered,
“I never did anything to displease her. So why should I ask her forgiveness.” Here
is a great Gaon and a great Tsadik. But to be married fifty years and never aggravate
your wife? That is something special. It might also be very unusual.
The great conflict in
marriage is not the conflict of Torah and the house. It is the conflict of two people
who are very different in many ways. How can they live together for fifty years with
never a wrong word? That is the power of Torah. And even those who do have Torah
rarely achieve it. As Reb Yisroel Salanter said, “It is easier to master the Talmud
than to master one bad character trait.”
One thing I learn from
the Cherubin is that to stand astride the Ark and do the right thing you have to
be an angel. What does that do for me? I don’t know if it does anything for me.
But it does tell me to get to work. And “one who comes to purify himself merits
heavenly help.” Yes, there is heavenly help. And yes, there are angels. And we need
help constantly.
But I have a more practical
path. We will discuss this in chapter Three. It is called, “Shalom Bayis Beth Din,”
an idea approved by Gedolei HaDor that could really make a dent in the broken marriages
we see today.
Friday, April 24, 2015
Secret of the Cherubin - Chapter One
Secret of The Cherubin
Rabbi Dovid E. Eidensohn
In the Holy Temple and the Tabernacle of Sinai there were various
rooms and courtyards, some holier than others. The highest sanctity was in the
inner sanctum, the Holy of Holies. In the Holy of Holies was the Holy Ark.
Inside the Holy Ark were the Tablets Moses brought down from Mount Sinai and a
Torah scroll. On top of the Holy Ark were decorative images of winged angels in
the guise of a boy and girl, called the Cherubin.
The Ark contained a Torah scroll and the Tablets of Moses. Why did
the Cherubin stand atop the Ark and its holy treasures?
The holy work Tano Divei Eliyohu or The Yeshiva of Eliyohu HaNovi
begins with the idea that the Cherubin preceded all of the Creation of Genesis.
It continues to say that Derech Erets, meaning proper character traits,
precedes the Tree of Life and the Torah. This is essentially the famous saying,
“Derech Erets precedes the Torah.” Derech Erets is how we relate to others and
to ourselves, and how our personality and human processes operate. Thus, the
Cherubin represented the purity of humanity ready to learn and obey the Torah.
A Jew devoted to Torah but whose personality is flawed cannot achieve a proper
level of Torah.
But there is another aspect of the Cherubin mentioned there. The
book Tano Divei Eliyohu begins with “And He drove the man out” of the Garden of
Eden after the sin of Adam and Eve. “And He established the Cherubin in front
of the Garden of Eden” to prevent people from entering the Garden. With the
Cherubin was “a sharply bladed sword that twisted.” Thus, the Cherubin are
avenging angels.
The Cherubin are avenging angels who appear in the guise of
children, a boy and a girl. This is amazing. Do children become avenging
angels? But a purity of heart that merits a purity of Torah cannot tolerate
evil. It struggles to maintain the purity of the Holy of Holies and whatever
Torah level is has achieved. This battle is a constant and mighty battle,
requiring great efforts and wisdom. Those who seek the Garden of Eden and
higher holiness battle with an angelic evil force, the Satan, and inner
biological and ego issues that require much planning and patience. The great
rabbis warn us that if we seek to go too high we can fall. The weapon we use is
a “blade of a twisting sword.” We must know when to go higher and when to
accept our present level. To err is to be in danger. And we must constantly
pray for divine assistance, because how can a mortal filled with evil forces
succeed?
The highest level of Derech Erets is in proper and loving marital
intimacy. Thus the Cherubin, representing Derech Erets, are boy and girl. This
symbolizes marital relations, the highest level of Derech Erets, as a pure and
innocent love.
The Torah and the Cherubin represent Torah and Derech Erets, or
how to observe the Torah in human relations. But the Cherubin are more than
simply the idea of relating to other people. The Cherubin represent the
incredible concept of G‑d, alone in His Self, who sought to relate to others.
We cannot approach the depth of this properly without the wisdom of G‑d which
we lack. But we must appreciate it.
We must emulate G‑d. We must seek to relate to others. We must
connect to others, and respect them, even if by so doing we may denigrate our
own honor and glory. The world is filled with denial of the Truth and Torah.
Yet it is G‑d's wish to make such a world in order that people can accept
challenge and merit reward. Relating to others is more important than we can
imagine. We, each of us, are more important than we can imagine. So we must
remind ourselves of our importance, and yet, we must work on modesty. The sword
is sharp but it turns and twists, up and down. Truly, life is a “ladder
standing on the ground, and its top is in the heavens.” But if we don’t do
things properly we can fall off of the ladder. And when we fall, the higher we
were, the greater is the damage from the fall.
Thus, the Cherubin, boy and girl together, represent several
important teachings. Through them we understand somewhat why HaShem created
people. First of all, the Cherubin were innocent and pure, and therefore
Cherubin in Aramaic, means “children.” Thus, we must strive for purity.
Purity means many things, but it surely means we must relate to others without
envy and hate. It is possible that relating to others without envy or hate is
the hardest command in the Torah. The Second Temple was destroyed because of
vain hatred.
Another lesson in the idea of Cherubin being “children” male and female is that Adam was
created alone until he discovered, “it is not good for a man to be alone.” Then
HaShem created Eve. Adam and Eve then had children and the world is their
progeny. But marriage is a “twisting sword.” On the one hand marriage may be
the highest level of humanity. It requires a supreme Derech Erets for two
different people to marry. And the biological passions associated with
childbirth threaten us constantly with evil thoughts that easily lead to sin.
We are always struggling with these opposite poles of humanity. But the
Cherubin, boy and girl, represent the idea that humans can struggle towards the
ideal and the goal of purity in a world of the opposite. For this was a person
created. And when a person tries to be pure, heavenly forces embrace and
encourage him. If he fails and sin, evil forces embrace and destroy him.
The Holy of Holies teaches us that despite the evil in the world
and in all of us, we must recall the possibility of the highest purity as
indicated with the Cherubin astride the Ark.
Reb Yisroel Salanter founded the Musar Movement to emphasize
Derech Erets and proper social and personal behavior. He said that it is easier
to master the Talmud than to purify one bad character trait. Great is our
burden. But the Torah and the heavenly realm are there to empower us to succeed.
King Saul, the tallest of the Jews in his time, was a mighty
warrior and the king of Israel, the first king. And yet, we are told, “Saul was as a one year old child” in his purity. How could this be?
Because the Cherubin teach us that life is to have temptations of ego and
illicit desire and to fight them. Saul merited being as pure as a child without
the hate and illicit desires that deprive people of holiness.
The great challenges of life are not in the Torah and its
commands, because one twisted with hate will twist the Torah. One who has a
pure heart and a pure mind and only such a person can learn Torah properly.
Thus, Torah without Cherubin is a mortal danger. But when we seek Torah and
Derech Erets, the Torah that we learn is pure.
The Zohar accepts that marriage and having children are done using
the Evil Inclination within us. But it must be a servant and not the manager.
As a servant, it creates lovely children with lofty souls. As a manager it
destroys.
Thus, the Cherubin, boy and girl, represent human relations at its
purest level. This includes marital relations that elevate a person as perhaps
nothing else.
All of us outside of the Garden of Eden struggle to find goodness.
But our world is saturated with biological and spiritual forces that threaten
Torah values. When we struggle with darkness a light comes from the highest
heavens to help us. The supreme achievement is to achieve purity similar to
that of young children. This is the teaching of the Cherubin.
***
Thursday, April 23, 2015
Kesubose - Problems and Solutions
A telephone conference lecture by Rabbi Dovid E. Eidensohn about the problems of a kesubo and solutions. The conference was recorded and placed on www.torahtimes.com , on the first window on the left of the first row of windows. Click here to hear the audio.
This session was designed to teach important rules in paskening Torah questions.
Sessions like this one have been held weekly Wednesday night at 9:30 PM. We hope to continue. Next week we want to discuss about forced Gittin such as done in New York State in secular courts or by those who feel it is a mitsvah to force a GET to free a woman. Is she free or not? Again, we are going to teach about paskening and encourage people to challenge suppositions and learn new ways to look at shaalose.
Tuesday, April 21, 2015
Telephone conference #4 "Is Your Kesubo (Marriage) Kosher?"
Shiur 4 telephone conference – Is
Your Kesubo (Marriage) Kosher?
9:30
Wednesday night April 22 - call 605-562-3130 insert code 411161#
Why are there problems in writing
a Kesubo? See Igeres Moshe Even Hoezer I:178, a problem with kesubose that do
not have the family name of the husband and wife. That is one of the many
problems. The other ones did not effect Reb Moshe perhaps, but they are all
problems. See below.
To explain, a kesubo requires two things: One that the
husband pledge money if he divorces his wife or dies, this is the money of the
kesubo. Two, that the wife should know that she will get her money when
divorced or widowed. If the wife is guaranteed of getting her money and yet the
wife is not sure she will get it, the gemora calls this Bias Zenuse, a marriage
which is prostitution. (Kesubose 82b and see Tosfose there d”h HOSOM. See also
Kesubose 56b). See Kesubose 82b that many women refused to ever marry because
they were not secure in getting their Kesubo money.Ssee Shulchan Aruch EH 66:9 about a woman who thought she would not get a Kesubo but was wrong because she was getting a Kesubo. If she stays with her husband thinking she had no Kesubo, "her marriage is zenuse."
Today, there are problems with many kesubose. One, as Reb
Moshe discusses, is the problem that many people in the large cities share the
same name. There are many people named Reuven son of Moshe or Leah daughter of
Shimon. If so, the Kesubo when presented to the husband can be refused. He can
say he is not the Reuven ben Shimon mentioned in the document. Now, even if the
Beth Din can clarify that he is the husband mentioned in the Kesubo, since the
wife has a Kesubo that is not necessarily kosher, she has no trust in it.
Therefore, it could be that the Kesubo is invalid and the marriage is not
covered by a Kesubo.
Reb Moshe presents a solution to this to write the family
name. But let us say that the husband is Reuven ben Shimon Gold. In all of New
York City there is likely another person with that name. If so, the Kesubo is
not a guarantee of payment and there is a problem.
Now we get to another problem. What do we do about the Kesubo
that offers the woman 200 Zuz? Nobody knows exactly what a zuz is. Rambam tells
us the equivalent in silver but silver like goats has different value in
different times and different places. How can the woman be secure in her money
when she has no idea how much it is?
Then we have a major problem with writing the correct names.
Today people have two or more names. This leads to great differences of opinion
among major authorities how to write the Kesubo. A Kesubo is harder to write
than a GET, because a GET is simply a document to do a mitzvah. The Kesubo is a
monetary document that is strong enough
to force the husband to pay. If the Kesubo doesn’t force the husband to pay
there are problems.
Even in earlier
generations where every city had experts in writing a GET on their Beth Din,
many of these Beth Dins produced divorces found by Gedolei Hador to be invalid.
If in a GET there are arguments, what about a Kesubo? And we know that today many
who write Kesubose do not know the laws of Names. A major Rosh Yeshiva once
asked me where the laws of Names are in the Shulchan Aruch.
Then there is a problem about writing two hundred zuz when it
should be one hundred. We will explain that in the class.
So what do we do?
Tune in Wed at 9:30 and get a kosher kesubo for yourself and
others.
Shalom,
Dovid Eidensohn
Sunday, April 19, 2015
audio - Rambam on Having Children
This audio quotes Rambam in Yad HaChazoko about the greatness of having children, and each new child is a universe that must bring rejoicing to the parents. We need to find happiness in family because in marriage and raising children there are challenges.
Click on link to hear the audio file on www.torahtimes.com . The website features posts as windows line after line. The latest posts are on top and those on the left are the newest ones. The two audios about family are next to each other. One is the Four Ways of Saving a Marriage and the newer on on its left is Rambam on Having Children. Click the link below to go to the website.
Two audios Four Ways to Save a Marriage and Rambam on Children
click here.
Click on link to hear the audio file on www.torahtimes.com . The website features posts as windows line after line. The latest posts are on top and those on the left are the newest ones. The two audios about family are next to each other. One is the Four Ways of Saving a Marriage and the newer on on its left is Rambam on Having Children. Click the link below to go to the website.
Two audios Four Ways to Save a Marriage and Rambam on Children
click here.
Saturday, April 18, 2015
Four Ways to Save a Marriage - audio link
Click here for AUDIO FILE 4 Ways to Save a Marriage
1. Saving marriage by thinking of the welfare of the children
2. Who is talking loshon hora about the rejected spouse?
3. What is felt to be a failure in the rejected spouse?
4. What does the Torah say?
The audios are on my website torahtimes.com, as blogspot takes videos but not audios.
There have already been lectures on telephone conference and this blog about Torah and family. Those interested in these telephone lectures and audio media should contact me at eidensohnd@gmail.com. Thank you.
1. Saving marriage by thinking of the welfare of the children
2. Who is talking loshon hora about the rejected spouse?
3. What is felt to be a failure in the rejected spouse?
4. What does the Torah say?
The audios are on my website torahtimes.com, as blogspot takes videos but not audios.
There have already been lectures on telephone conference and this blog about Torah and family. Those interested in these telephone lectures and audio media should contact me at eidensohnd@gmail.com. Thank you.
Monday, April 13, 2015
שיעור הראשון בעניני הוראה על אבן העזר השיעור יהיה בטעלעפון ע' הפרטים למטה
דוד אליהו אידנסון אסרו חג
פסח תשע"ה 845-578-1917
הכנות לשיעור בהוראה על אבן העזר #1 יום רביעי 9:30 PM כו' ניסן תשע"ה
To join the shiur call for free Wed night 26 Nisan 5775 9:30 at 605-562-3130 and then enter code
411161#.
1.
שולחן
ערוך אבן העזר סימן א' סעיף א' הש"ע והרמ"א. ויש לדייק למה בחר
הש"ע להביא גמרא שענינו פרו ורבו ולא מדבר על עצם הנישואין שהוא חשוב.
והרמ"א מביא בענין הנושא אשה שזה גורם לו כמה מעלות טובות. דהיינו
שהוא משבח הזיוג ולא הפרו ורבו. והאמת
שהמצוה בתורה של פרו ורבו הוא כמו שכתב הבית יוסף. אבל הרמ"א בא להוסיף שגוף
הנישואין הוא מהפך האדם מלמטה למעלה על פי גמרות מפורשת. והם ב' ענינים נפרדים.
2.
וע' רע"א שם השיטות
בחיובי הנשים בעניני פרו ורבו. והבית שמואל שם ס"ק ב' אם האשה חייבת בשבת
דהיינו מי שקיים פרו ורבו שיש לו בן ובת ויש עוד חיוב לאנשים לערב את תנח את ידך
שהוא שבת למלאות העולם באנשים ויש שיטות אם האשה חייבת בשבת הגם שאינה חייבת בפרו
ורבו.
3.
ע'
רמב"ם אישות פרק טו' סעיף טז' חיובי האיש בפרו ורבו להקים בן ובת עוד יש מצוה
דרבנן להוסיף עוד ועוד נשמות בהעולם שזה נקרא שבת, עוד יש איסור לישב בלא אשה שמא
יבא לידי הירהור. ומסיק הרמב"ם ולא תשב אשה בלא איש שלא תחשד עכ"ל משמע
שבאשה אין חיוב פרו ורבו ואין מצוה לשבת ואין איסור הרהור רק שיש חשד אם אין לה
בעל שמא היא עושה עבירות. ולכאורה זה ראיה גדולה לשיטת הרמב"ם בזה והבית
שמואל ורע"א שעוסקים בזה לא מביאים ראיה זו מן הרמב"ם שאין האשה חייבת
בפרו ורבו ובשבת ובאיסור הירהור רק יש לחוש לחשד. וגם זה מוכח ברמב"ם גופא
שתלוי באיזה אשה שיש אשה שרוצה אישות והיא חשודה ויש אשה שלא רוצה להנשא ואינה
רוצה בכלל בענין זה כה"ג ליכא איסור ע' לקמן בזה.
4.
הרמב"ם
שם כתב הטעם לשבת שמוסיף נפש אחת בעולם ומקשה הרמ"ך שבגמרא לא נותן טעם זה
אלא הטעם שיש פסוק בבוקר זרע את זרעך ולערב את תנח ידך יבמות סב ע"ב כי לא
תדע הזה יכשר דחייש למיתת הראשונים ונמצא שלא קיים מצוה והוא נתן בכאן טעם משום
תוספת נפש אחת וצ"ע עכ"ל
5.
וי"ל
שלטעם הגמרא היה אפשר להעלות על הדעת שהעיקר הוא בן או בת ואם ימותו יש ענין לערב
אל תנח להשלים ההפסד. ובא הרמב"ם לומר שזה טעות. שבכל נפש יכול להיות עולם
מלא ואפשר שהשלישי יהיה טוב מן הראשונים ולא סתם כדמשמע קצת בגמרא שלערב הוא
להשלים הראשון אלא צריכים לשמוח בכל לידה כאילו הוא עולם מלא ולא רק שיש תשלומין
להראשון. ובודאי הלימוד שצריכים שבת הוא מן הפסוק שצריכים להמשיך. ובודאי אם יתעצל
האדם בזה אפשר לומר לו מי יודע אם יתקיימו הילדים שהולדת. אבל העיקר בפרו ורבו לא
רק לצאת ידי חובתו בפרו ורבו או שבת אלא העיקר בפרו ורבו לשמוח מזה על כל ילד
שמביא להעולם שהוא כעולם מלא. ולא רק שאם ימות הראשון יהיה זה. ונ"מ שידוע
שצער גידול בנים ממית האדם ודוקא על ידי מה שכתב הרמב"ם שישמח האדם בילד שהוא
עולם מלא אפשר לו לישא העול הכבד של הילד. שלכן מביא הרמב"ם חוץ מן הפסוק שהעיקר
לא לשמוח שמא ימות הבן ויהיה זה תשלומין לו אלא צריכים לשמוח שזכה לעולם מלא אפילו
אם יתקיים הראשון. ושמחה זו עיקר גדול באמונה בגדלות הנשמה.
6.
והנה פעם
ישב ילד על הכסא של הרב של ירושלים הגאון רבי יוסף חיים זאנענפעלד זצ"ל ונכנס
הרב ולא רצה להפריע הילד ואמר הלא הילד הזה יכול להשיג מדרגות מדרגות ואילו אני
כבר זקנתי ואין לי היכולת של הילד להיות כך וכך. והוא ענוה ועדיין יש בו אמת שעל
כל ילד ועל כל צעיר צריכים לחשוב שהעולם לפניו וכל אחד יכול להשיג צדקת משה רבינו
וכו'.
7.
וע'
ברע"א על הרמב"ם אישות פרק טו' סעיף טז' שמביא קושיא על הרמב"ם
מדבריו באיסורי ביאה פרק כא' הלכה כו' ורשות לאשה שלא תנשא לעולם ע"כ
ופה אומר ולא תשב אשה בלא איש שלא תחשד
ע"כ והתירוץ מביא רע"א בשם פוסק אחד שמיירי בעיר שכולם נשים או סריסרים.
והוא דוחק גדול.
8.
ולענ"ד
התירוץ הוא שאם האשה היא כאשה רגילה שפעם היה לה בעל או שהיא משתדלת להנשא בזה
יודעים שיש לה חשש חשד אם לא תנשא שהיא רוצה בדברים אלה. אבל אם יש אשה שמואסת בכל
הענין מהיזה טעם ויודעים שאפשר לה להנשא ודוקא לא רוצה בזה מאיזה טעם למה מעלים על
הדעת חשד עליה שודאי אשה כזאת אין חשד שהכל יודעים שהיא לא רוצה דברים הללו. וכן
יכול להיות שהתשמיש קשה להם או הלידה ובפרט אם יודעים מזה שכה"ג אין חשש חשד.
9.
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